Clan CrestThe Clan McLea/Livingstone Forum

Code of
Conduct
Title: Thoughts on Bloodlines versus Families versus Surnames
Posted by: Andrew Lancaster
Date: 06 March 2007

I thought I'd post a thought which comes from working on the DNA project.

People who have looked around the internet and at the work of various Livingstone or MacLea genealogists around the world will notice that a very simple equation has often been made...

1. A clan
2. A family
3. A surname, or groups of surnames in our case
4. A male bloodline

The development of affordable Y-DNA testing, and the great work of the late Rob Livingston in getting our project to the forefront of such work has forced us all to realize that we are an amazingly diverse clan with regards to male bloodlines.

The development of on-line resources for genealogists has forced people to see that, for example, the lowland Livingstons might not be related by blood with the highland Livingstones, and not everyone in the clan is a direct male descendant of a clan chief.

Now while many of you are very familiar with such statements and will not find them surprising at all, many hard-working genealogists are disappointed by this type of information, having been brought up to see all Livingstons as kin descended from the same man somewhere way back.

The next step is then to move to new over-simplifications: OK, am I a highlander or lowlander etc?

I want to make some remarks against both disappointment and simplification. You can keep the family without the simplification...

1. Having the same Y DNA as another family is only one way of being related. For example you do not have the same Y DNA as your mother's family.

So if it turns out that Dr Livingstone is not in the same Y line as Niall, this will not invalidate the very believable claim that they are close kin.

2. Chiefly lines passed on titles and rights, but not always the Y DNA. Female heirs, nephews, cousins etc often have to be called in, in which case they often take up the new name. This is how any aristocracy MUST work. It might even be the reason that the clan started to use the Livingstone name? 

For this reason, VERY OLD chiefly or aristocratic family such as the BOTH the chiefs of the clan MacLea, and also the aristocratic family which once had claim to the Livingston name, almost certainly have descendants with SEVERAL Y DNA lines.

(So we should be very careful about saying "oh well, it seems I am not really in that family"!)

3. To say it again: we simply do not know what the link is between the highland clan, and the Livingston surname. The may well have been a blood relation, for example a marriage. We do not need to choose. They considered themselves kin, and we have no information with which we can better them. They may have been right.

4. I have become increasingly of the opinion that most Livingston families are descended from highlanders. There was certainly a dynasty of titled lowlanders, but this was NOT a clan. There is no lowland clan. Were there other lowlanders who used the same name as the name for their own family? It is possible that there were not, or that this was in any case unusual.

Best Regards
Andrew


** This Thread has ended - Please do NOT attempt to resurrect it! **

Replies

Title:Date:Posted By:
Thoughts on Bloodlines versus Families versus Surnames06 March 2007Andrew Lancaster
   Thoughts on Bloodlines versus Families versus Surnames06 March 2007Kyle MacLea
      Thoughts on Bloodlines versus Families versus Surnames07 March 2007Young Bachuil
      Thoughts on Bloodlines versus Families versus Surnames07 March 2007Young Bachuil
         Thoughts on Bloodlines versus Families versus Surnames07 March 2007Kyle MacLea
            Name Distribution08 March 2007Young Bachuil
               Name Distribution08 March 2007Andrew Lancaster
                  Name Distribution: McLea wills08 March 2007Kyle MacLea
                     Name Distribution: Livingston wills 161908 March 2007Kyle MacLea
                        Name Distribution: Livingston wills 161908 March 2007Young Bachuil
                           Name Distribution: Livingston wills 161908 March 2007Kyle MacLea
                     Name Distribution: Livingston wills 164308 March 2007Kyle MacLea
               Name Distribution08 March 2007David Wyse Livingston
                  Name Distribution: McOnlea08 March 2007Kyle MacLea
                     Name Distribution: McOnlea08 March 2007Kyle MacLea
                     Name Distribution: McOnlea08 March 2007David Wyse Livingston
                        Spreadsheet of McLeas08 March 2007Kyle MacLea
                        Name Change from McLea to Livingstone08 March 2007David Livingston
                           Name Change from McLea to Livingstone08 March 2007Kyle MacLea
                  Name Distribution MacLay08 March 2007Young Bachuil
               Irish Name Distribution08 March 2007IAN
               Census returns by name08 March 2007Kyle MacLea
               Name Distribution08 March 2007Kyle MacLea
                  Name Distribution08 March 2007Kyle MacLea
            Thoughts on Bloodlines versus Families versus Surnames09 March 2007Donald (Livingstone) Clink
               Thoughts on Bloodlines versus Families versus Surnames09 March 2007Kyle MacLea
                  Thoughts on Bloodlines versus Families versus Surnames11 March 2007Donald (Livingstone) Clink
                  Thoughts on Bloodlines versus Families versus Surnames13 March 2007Andrew Lancaster

Return to Main Listings     Return to ANZ Listings     Return to Homepage