Clan CrestThe Clan McLea/Livingstone Forum

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Title: Slightly different spin on the name change.. Fictious story and database data
Posted by: David Wyse Livingston
Date: 05 April 2007

I know all the threads appear to be either the name change of the 1750-60's or the search for Tartan information. What can I say it appears we are all big on discovering things and creative minds.

Below is some information I pulled from the database, thanks you Kyle for providing the information. If anyone wants a copy of the Excel Spreadsheet please let me know and I'll email it to you.

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Please remember that the gaps in dates are most likely because Scotlands People never got the OPR records from the parishes.

Argyl

Livingston(e) Births through 1789
1729 - 1748: Only 7 births for Livingston... All in Kildalton
1750 - 1759: 24 births recorded: 6 in Lismore Appin and Duror,  1 in Kilninver and kilmelfort, 15 in Kilbrandon and kilchattan, and 2 in Inveraray and Glenary
1760 - 1769: 30 births recorded: 13 in Lismore Appin and Duror, 4 in Kilninver and kilmelfort, 4 in Kilbrandon and kilchattan, 1 in  Inveraray and Glenary, 7 in Campbeltown, and 1 in Ardchattan.
1770 - 1779: 47 births recorded:2 in Strathlachlan, 33 in Lismore Appin and Duror, 3 in Kilninver and kilmelfort, 1 in Kilmodan, 6 in Kilbrandon and kilchattan, 1 in Campbeltown, and 1 in Bowmore or or Kilarrow
1780 - 1789: 65 births recorded: 3 in Craignish, 1 in Dunoon and Kilmun, 2 in Glenorchy and Inishail, 3 in Inveraray and Glenaray, 22 in Kilbrandon and Kilchattan, 1 in Kildalton, 1 in Kilmartin, 2 in kilmodan, 12 in Kilmore and kilbride, 4 in kilninver and Kilmelfort, 13 in Lismore Appin and Duror, 1 in North Knapdale.

McLea/MacLea Births went from 1726 through 1809
- 4 McLea/MacLea births from 1726 - 1729
- 5 McLea/MacLea births from 1730 - 1739
- 6 McLea/MacLea births from 1740 - 1749
- 4 McLea/MacLea births from 1750 - 1759
- 4 McLea/MacLea births from 1760 - 1769
- 7 McLea/MacLea births from 1770 - 1779
- 7 McLea/MacLea births from 1780 - 1789

The following is after the October 1789 count of Livingston's
- 1 McLea/MacLea births from 1790 - 1799
- 2 McLea/MacLea births from 1800 - 1809

Bute

Only Livingston birth recorded was in 1789, will update when we gather information after October 1789.
McLea/MacLea Births went from 1693 all the way to 1854
- 6 McLea/MacLea births from 1693 - 1699
- 3 McLea/MacLea births from 1700 - 1709
- 7 McLea/MacLea births from 1710 - 1719
- 14 McLea/MacLea births from 1720 - 1729
- 9 McLea/MacLea births from 1730 - 1739
- 4 McLea/MacLea births from 1740 - 1749
- 5 McLea/MacLea births from 1750 - 1759
- 9 McLea/MacLea births from 1760 - 1769
- 15 McLea/MacLea births from 1770 - 1779
- 13 McLea/MacLea births from 1780 - 1789

The following is after the October 1789 count of Livingston's
- 21 McLea/MacLea births from 1790 - 1799
- 30 McLea/MacLea births from 1800 - 1853

Dunbarton

Livingston Births went from 1670 to 1712 (6 births), then 1 in 1767, and 1 in 1787
McLea births went from 1716 to 1718 (2 births), then from 1770 to 1783 (6 births)

Inverness

Livingston(e) births
1753 - 1759: 5 births in Inverness
1760 - 1769: 2 births in Kilmallie(Inverness)
1770 - 1779: 6 births in Kilmallie(Inverness)
1780 - 1789: 17 births in Kilmallie(Inverness)

McLea/MacLea births
1644: 1 birth in Inverness
No births until after October 1789
1793 - 1799: 6 births
1800 - 1810: 3 births
1811 - 1814: 4 births (2 in Inverness, 2 in Glenelg)
1815 - 1837: 0 births
1838 - 1842: 3 births in Kiltarlity


Renfrew:
No Livingstone Birth until 1737 - 1739 (3 births), 15 year gap then in 1753 - 1789 had 52 births

1753 - 1759: 3 births: 2 in Port Glasgow and 1 in Abbey
1760 - 1769: 10 births: 5 in Greenock old or West, 2 in Greenock New or Middle, 3 in Port Glasgow
1770 - 1779: 12 births: 8 in Greenock old or West, 2 in Port Glasgow, 1 in Paisley Burgh or Low, 1 in Abbey
1780 - 1789: 34 births: 17 in Greenock Old or West, 5 in Greennock New or Middle, 1 in Paisley Burgh or Low, 7 in Port Glasgow, 1 in kilbarchan, 2 in Abbey, 1 in Inverkip

McLea/MacLea
1704 - 1708: 2 births: both in Greenock Old or West
1765 - 1788: 5 births: 3 in Greenock New or Middle, 2 in Greenock Old or West.

The following is after the October 1789 count of Livingston's
1790 - 1834: 19 births: 8 in Greenock New or Middle, 7 in Greenock Old or West, 1 in Port Glasgow, 2 in Paisley Middle, 1 in Greenock East.

To break it down:
Argyll: Livingston(e) increase started in 1750 but largest number was 1770... factor in babies of 1750 keeping their names and not actually switching their names over and we can see the real start would be in the middle (the 1760's)
Argyll: McLea/MacLea shows a decrease in 1750/1760 but then goes back up in 1770/1780. But a small count after 1780's.

Bute: No Livingston(e) influence until 1779, shows one child. Possible late switch from McLea to Livingstone
Bute: McLea/MacLea increase in 1720's then again in 1760 through 1800.
- Possibly anyone who didn't want to follow the Chiefs rule to use the Livingstone name moved to bute?!?

Dunbarton: Not much for either Livingstone or McLea.

Inverness: Livingstones nearly tripled in 1780 - 1789
Inverness: McLea/MacLea not much until after 1789.

Renfrew: Livingstone main increase was again in 1780 - 1789 where it doubled
Renfrew: McLea/MacLea only had 5 in 1765 - 1789

Thought from this information and from what I pulled on the website:

John MacOnlea, Baron of the Bachuil was born in 1746, his father was Duncan MacOnlea (born 1713/died 1780 at age 67), who was Chief from 1730 - 1780. I would assume that if John were to officially give Coll the name Livingstone in 1773 it had to be with Duncan’s blessing and after great deliberation with the older chief. Looking at the above numbers for Livingston(e) we can see that the highest numbers were in 1760 - 70's and I would agree that the jump to 33 in Lismore is most likely due to John naming Coll Livingstone and the clan following their up-coming chiefs example in 1773.

Here is my far fetching scenario, let's call it fiction. 

Now the Battle of Philiphaugh was in 1645 and we get the account of the Lord Callendar/Earl of Linlithgow restoring the health of a McLea clansman, and that the McLea use the Anglo-Saxon name of Livingston when they go into the lowlands so not to be interpreted as a thief. We also know that the Gaelic Mac-An-Leigh and the Anglo-Saxon Livingston has, in definition, roughly the same meaning.

What if naming was a two way street. What if the poorer Livingston’s of old used MacLea when they went into the Highlands? Only reason I think that is right after 1716 Bute got an influx of McLea/MacLea showing up in the 1720's. If it was known to the Chief and Clan members that the "poorer "Livingston's of old (who couldn't flee to Rome or Europe) were fleeing persecution into the Highlands and using the Gaelic name to blend in and get an ally, like the Stewarts of Appin. Now I know this is a major stretch so don’t count it to much. The fact that the aristocracy might have failed/died/migrated elsewhere did not stop the Livingston family. From the database I counted 356 births to Livingston(e) between 1710 and 1730, so it might be in better fashion that the working class Livingston might have looked  to the MacOnlea Clan for guidance believing themselves part of the ancient clan. 

Then 30 - 40 years later the tide turns and being a Highlander who fought in 1745 is not the safest way to go. The Clans System is being broken apart, Gaelic speech and Tartans are looked upon unfavorably. A good lowland Anglo-Saxon name is needed to save any property that is still around. Maybe some of the old timers were once Livingston or in contact with the “lowland cousins”, and are now talking to the Chief (Duncan) about ways to make it safer for everyone. Duncan had a son who was already baptized a MacOnlea as it might be 1747 - 1752 but he thinks it might be a smart way to save his Clan from retribution and it wouldn't be a hard switch to just keep the same name that the Mclea have used in traveling for a few centuries, the Anglo-Saxon version of their name. To show the difference from old and new they decide to add the E at the end.

Some people go for it, some people feel that changing their name is wrong. It starts with the local clan in Lismore, as new babies are born their parents raise them as Livingstone, Duncan was unable to do this for his son as the switch happened when John was a boy but when John was old enough to have children he followed his fathers idea and named him Coll Livingstone (I have a copy of the baptism record from ScotlandsPeople).

As the decades past some people in other Counties saw what was happening and decided to join in as well and even though Argyll had most all the people who wanted to switch done in the 1770's the surrounding counties got done in 1780's or, in the area of Bute, it seems they took in the families that did not want to change their names.

Now this is a fun story I've created but I do not have the historical background to make it more than a story. I am sure their is "more holes than Swiss cheese" but that is what is fun about forums. Give an idea that someone might not have looked at, make a spin of someone else’s idea, or let someone spin off your thoughts.

Thanks for listening.
David

** This Thread has ended - Please do NOT attempt to resurrect it! **

Replies

Title:Date:Posted By:
Slightly different spin on the name change.. Fictious story and database data05 April 2007David Wyse Livingston
   Stories...05 April 2007Kyle MacLea
      Stories...05 April 2007Kyle MacLea
   Slightly different spin on the name change.. Fictious story and database data05 April 2007Donald (Livingstone) Clink
      Slightly different spin on the name change.. Fictious story and database data05 April 2007Donald (Livingstone) Clink
         Slightly different spin on the name change.. Fictious story and database data05 April 2007Craig McClay Wilson
            Slightly different spin on the name change.. Fictious story and database data05 April 2007Donald (Livingstone) Clink
               Slightly different spin on the name change.. Fictious story and database data05 April 2007Kyle MacLea
               Slightly different spin on the name change.. Fictious story and database data05 April 2007Craig McClay Wilson
   Slightly different spin on the name change.. Fictious story and database data05 April 2007Andrew Lancaster
      Slightly different spin on the name change.. Fictious story and database data05 April 2007David Wyse Livingston
         Slightly different spin on the name change.. Fictious story and database data05 April 2007Kyle MacLea
         Slightly different spin on the name change.. Fictious story and database data06 April 2007Donald (Livingstone) Clink
   Slightly different spin on the name change.. Fictious story and database data06 April 2007Donald (Livingstone) Clink
      Slightly different spin on the name change.. Fictious story and database data06 April 2007Donald (Livingstone) Clink

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