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Title: Another old thread from Robert
Posted by: David Livingston
Date: 13 October 2007

This one is older than the first one I added... this seems the beginning of his thoughts back in 2002.
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Subject: Re: Mac Onlea 
From: Dennis King 
Reply-To: Scholars and students of Old Irish
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:44:04 -0800 
Content-Type: text/plain 

Rob wrote:

> Have you any thoughts on the likelyhood of "an Fear Leighinn"
> evolving into "Onlea" (pronouned, "An Lay")?

It strikes me as unlikely to the point of impossibility.

On the other hand, Mac Onlea could easily come from the
reduction of Mac Dhonnshléibhe.

Dennis
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Subject: Re: Mac Onlea 
From: rlivingston1488
Reply-To: Scholars and students of Old Irish
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 01:10:57 -0800 
Content-Type: text/plain 


Dennis

That is extremely disappointing to me, but I appreciate that you are candid.
I think I understand why the "Dh" and the "sh"  in Mac Dhonnsliebhe is
lenited, but I'm a bit confused about the rules for muting of the "bh".  Is
there a standard rule?

Rob
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Subject: Re: Mac Onlea 
From: Dennis King
Reply-To: Scholars and students of Old Irish
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 10:06:24 -0800 
Content-Type: text/plain 


Let me outline the changes, as I "hear" them, to find out if others
agree:

1.  The broad "dh", written in IPA as a gamma, is homorganic with
the "c" in "mac", and they simply coalesce;

2.  The "sh" is pronounced as /h/, but often weakly in non-initial
position, especially between consonsants;

3.  The slender "bh" is a bilabial /v’/, but the ending that would
be carefully pronounced /e:v’@/ could easily be curtailed to /e:/.

Mac Dhonnshléibhe > Mac (Dh)onn(sh)léi(bhe)

Also, I think that the Livingston(e)/Donlevy family were hereditary
physicians in Ulster, so the reinterpretation of their name as
Mac an Léigh (= Son of the Physician; see OI "líaig") would both
make sense and would fit exactly with the anglicization MacOnlea.

Dennis
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Subject: Re: Mac Onlea 
From: rlivingston1488
Reply-To: Scholars and students of Old Irish
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:59:47 -0800 
Content-Type: text/plain 

Dennis,
    One last try at this MacOnlea thing.  I have come across a "Pilip mac
Finlaeic mhic Finlaeic" in the genealogies of descendants of the tribes of
Lorn (probably written in the 1200s).  I'm assuming that "Mac Finlaeic" is
the son "of fair-warrior"or "of fair-layman" and that it could justifiably
be spelled "Mac Fhinnlaeich", with the "Fh" being lenited.  Is it possible
that the "ich" could be slenderized and dropped out as well when one
attempts to anglisize it?  I have also recently come across modern
anglisized versions of the name (in the 1600s and 1700s) where or name is
anglisized as "MacOanley", M'enlea", M'Inlea", and MacKinlay.
    I promise to lay off this line of questioning soon - I'm running out of
resource material!

Rob
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Subject: Re: Mac Onlea 
From: Dennis King
Reply-To: Scholars and students of Old Irish
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:51:46 -0800 
Content-Type: text/plain 

Rob wrote:

> One last try at this MacOnlea thing.  I have come across a "Pilip mac
> Finlaeic mhic Finlaeic" in the genealogies of descendants of the tribes 
> of
> Lorn (probably written in the 1200s).  I'm assuming that "Mac Finlaeic" 
> is
> the son "of fair-warrior"or "of fair-layman"

Maybe.  A better attested name that might fit here, however,
is Fionnlagh, from earlier Finnlug, sometimes explained as
a combination of two theonyms, Finn and Lug.  "Find+láech"
seems perfectly reasonable, but I'm just not familiar with
it as a name.

> and that it could justifiably
> be spelled "Mac Fhinnlaeich", with the "Fh" being lenited.

Lenition is certainly possible.

> I have also recently come across modern
> anglisized versions of the name (in the 1600s and 1700s) where or name
> is anglisized as "MacOanley", M'enlea", M'Inlea", and MacKinlay.

MacKinlay is a common anglicization of Mac Fhionnlaigh.

Dennis

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